TK Added Value Items - Take 2

[halfmeg]

Anyway, the upcoming release is not TK4. It is TK3 updated with
numerous items on the way to becoming TK4.
Phil - this was going to be longer but I've gotta run

When the original post was started it wasn't meant to focus solely on 7171 or the wish list.

There are a great number of items which have been added to TK since TK1, TK2 and even TK3. Several more are available but have not been added and I am not sure they will be any time soon.

One of the issues which are involved are the availability of some of the items.

RPF is available via the author's web site and also the CBT site. It is most likely the two sites have the same software but perhaps not packaged the same way. DSAT is available in the files section of this group and in several places in the CBT files. They are not all alike and I believe the most recent is in the files section.

Those are just a couple of examples of software which has been added to TK.

There are also some more involved things like 2703 and 3705 support which required internal MVS modifications as well as Hercules emulation support. The how-to and software to implement are only currently available at the author's site. It is included in the upcoming update.

An item which I wanted to attach to TK is the compiler pack created by Jay Moseley. It includes many additional compilers which have been gathered from various places. See:

http://jaymoseley.com/hercules/compilers/contents.htm

This addon pack simplifies the addition of many compilers in a few simple steps. There are a few exceptions which aren't included on the pack which may be future additions.

There was talk at one time of a pack being created which would have the GCCMVS compiler and various programs compiled with it available.

Then we get to things which are somewhat larger still. Things like the MVS Source DASD and CBT Tape DASD which could possibly use a revamp and only seem available as part of the TK CD.

So I guess, after all this musing, my questions are:

1. Should and/or how would a single repository for software added to TK exist?

2. Should items like the Compiler Pack be incorporated into a TK CD ?

3. Should a minimal TK (1) be available for quick download for trial and the 'CD' have the kit and kaboodle ?

4. Who's going to write the documentation?

Phil - gotta go again

(1) the public BETA test will most likely be very similar to this one, no SMP, MVSSRC or CBT DASD basically res, spool and work packs.

[kerravon86]

Post by halfmeg
There was talk at one time of a pack being created
which would have the GCCMVS compiler and various
programs compiled with it available.

That project is still alive. It's currently waiting
on the MVS revamp to have a presumably small number
of mods to get it back to how it was architecturally
before. Also waiting on the results of z/VSE testing.
I'm actively pursuing the z/VSE version at the
moment.

Post by halfmeg
Then we get to things which are somewhat larger still.
Things like the MVS Source DASD and CBT Tape DASD which
could possibly use a revamp and only seem available as
part of the TK CD.

A consolidated MVS source code PDS is available
from other places, and has had a lot of work
done to produce that consolidation. There is
additional work going on surrounding that too -
to make it available to be stored in ASCII
format.

BFN. Paul.

[cedarlakebuzzards]

Post by halfmeg
snip<
1. Should and/or how would a single repository for software added to TK exist?

Having worked in the capacity of being a "code cop" for application
code, I found the idea of a single code repository, in theory, an
excellent idea. In practice, the repository is hard to implement.

Post by halfmeg
2. Should items like the Compiler Pack be incorporated into a TK CD ?

Yes.

Post by halfmeg
3. Should a minimal TK (1) be available for quick download for trial

and the 'CD' have the kit and kaboodle ?

I would like to suggest "packages", each depending on the previous

1. base operating system ("vanilla" as delivered by IBM)
2. utilities (other than those include in the above).
3. development tools (i.e. compiler pack)

4. applications

Post by halfmeg
4. Who's going to write the documentation?

Unfortunately, most techies I know (including me) don't like writing
documentation.

Post by halfmeg
Phil - gotta go again
(1) the public BETA test will most likely be very similar to this

one, no SMP, MVSSRC or CBT DASD basically res, spool and work packs.

[halfmeg]

Need to preface this with a disclaimer. My comments below may wander a bit and may not even make a specific point. Somewhere this week I lost a day, don't know where it went but it's gone.

Post by cedarlakebuzzards

Post by halfmeg
1. Should and/or how would a single repository for software added to TK exist?

Having worked in the capacity of being a "code cop" for application
code, I found the idea of a single code repository, in theory, an
excellent idea. In practice, the repository is hard to implement.

Yes, we have numerous file areas:

Yahoo Groups file areas
CBT Tape
Ibibilio
Sourceforge
many individual's web pages

There are also the different models as to how projects are developed. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar

" The Cathedral model, in which source code is available with each software release, but code developed between releases is restricted to an exclusive group of software developers."

" The Bazaar model, in which the code is developed over the Internet in view of the public. Raymond credits Linus Torvalds, leader of the Linux kernel project, as the inventor of this process."

TK and it's added items seem to fit more with the Cathedral model even though several people may work on something.

Sometimes things disappear when there is only one or a small group working on a project.

Some disappearing sites which from time to time someone wishes they had something from:

http://www.shedlock.org/
http://www.vm-370.com/
http://www.homerow.net/hax/
http://www.kiyoinc.com/herc390.html
http://pweb.uunet.de/schwarzer.d/projects/hercules/
http://www.schaefernet.de/hercules

And there are other sites which are still around but difficult to remember ( for me anyway ) like :

http://www.webring.com/hub?ring=dinos which has many dino sites
http://www.mvsdasd.org/
http://www.mountaindesigns.com/jcc/
http://www.lightlink.com/mhp/3705/

Some stuff is simply not available anymore. Some is stuffed away after a download but not readily remembered as to file name or where. DL/I was a recent example. Both the tape and documentation were gone from the web. Both now available but in different places I think.

Post by cedarlakebuzzards

Post by halfmeg
2. Should items like the Compiler Pack be incorporated into a TK CD ?

Yes.

The slight problem with this is the same with many items, they get modified or updated while the TK distribution remains static.

RPF was updated several times since the TK3 CD was created. Mike has reservations about permitting inclusion of KICKS which is understandable as it is in the 'toddler' stage of life. I haven't been able to keep up with where GCCMVS and BREXX have progressed, but would like to include them along with (B)REXX utilities that have been developed but not released (TSO COPY ? ).

Independent DASD which can be attached to the system may be a good solution for somewhat complex additions like the Compiler Pack or GCCMVS and friends which may change frequently. I don't know about the complexity of KICKS as I haven't downloaded it. Since it 'touches' several system datasets, it is at the very least important to backup your system before installation.

Smaller additions, such as RPF, JRP or have different install methods. RPF uses a jcl stream and a tape and pretty much is done. JRP is packaged in a XMIT and may require password entries into the source code for restricted access and parm modification depending upon whether you want a WTO issued or not. RPF is also in xmit form if obtained from CBT Tape site.

Post by cedarlakebuzzards

Post by halfmeg
3. Should a minimal TK (1) be available for quick download for
trial and the 'CD' have the kit and kaboodle ?

I would like to suggest "packages", each depending on the previous
1. base operating system ("vanilla" as delivered by IBM)

With PTFs or without ?
With UserMODS like 3390 support or without ?
Greg Price TSO addition MODs ?

RAKF ?

Post by cedarlakebuzzards
2. utilities (other than those include in the above).

REVIEW, DSAT, FSE, RPF, DSSREST/DSSDUMP ( an CBT ? )

Post by cedarlakebuzzards
3. development tools (i.e. compiler pack)

Was thinking of dropping compilers in TK4 if favor of Compiler Pack. This would mean only IFOX available to do any programming with until Compiler Pack installed.

Post by cedarlakebuzzards
4. applications

Hmmmm, what applications are folks running ? What is available ?

Post by cedarlakebuzzards

Post by halfmeg
4. Who's going to write the documentation?

Unfortunately, most techies I know (including me) don't like writing
documentation.

One reason we are sticking with some things is they remain aligned with Volker's web pages and cookbook.

Phil